My guest on today's show is Jules Burgemeestr.
Jules is a personal trainer based in Melbourne. And over the years, he's built a reputation as an injury rehabilitation specialist. He also trains a number of athletes and he works with a lot of coaches as a coaching mentor.
I first met Jules on an camp in Thailand back in 2015 and for a big guy, he moves really.
I've also met several of Jules's clients who are super strong, super motivated and eager to learn and master new skills. If you've been listening to The Protect The Asset podcast, you would've heard both Ashley Jones and Amy Bowe mention hiring Jules as a coach and a mentor.
Jules has a wealth of knowledge and is passionate about helping more people create a healthy lifestyle.
You'll understand what I mean. When you listen to Jules, speak about his latest farm project and how he wants to help people take control of their health in an immersive way.
Jules is one of those guys who is willing to share his knowledge and experience with anyone who's ready to listen. He's not big on marketing and sales, but he's managed to build a very successful career through results-driven hard work and client referrals.
It was awesome to reconnect with Jules and learn more about his world.
And I really hope you enjoy this episode.
[00:01:58] Jules: So at the moment, I am closing a clinic in Elwood where I was, I guess, performing your run of the mill of regular personal training hours. I am opening a farm slash health retreat in the Otways in Victoria.
[00:02:15] I provide support for coaches in training them, I guess, at a. Higher level and helping them to understand what they're doing and how they can help their clients better. I also sell water filters. Do I do anything else? Stretch
[00:02:32] Stretch: I didn't even know you sell filters, mate. yeah,
[00:02:35] Jules: cause I don't advertise it.
[00:02:36] I just like, Hey, Hey, you're having some health problems. You wanna clean up your health, whatever . And I have a lot of experience in the past training people for specific sports event. Yeah gymnastics MMA. I'm trying to think if we did anything else I used to do golfers, I've done power lifters, Olympic weightlifters, blah, blah, blah.
[00:02:55] Stretch: Right. There's a, there's a lot we're gonna talk about today. Awesome stuff to unpack. When did this all start for you? Like how many years have you been in, you know, the health and fitness or personal training world?
[00:03:06] Jules: Yeah. So I've pretty much been training people since I was about 18 to 20. And I'm 35.
[00:03:13] Now I'd say that I've been like employed in health as my full-time income since about 22.
[00:03:20] Stretch: So what kicked that off you? Like what, what made you decide that that was the line you wanted to take for your career..
[00:03:26] Jules: I think it was just my addiction. Like, I didn't like anything else really. And it's like of all the jobs I had or opportunities that came up, that was just the one I kept going back to for better or worse, even if I like wasn't getting paid well, or it was really hard.
[00:03:42] It's just the thing I wanted to do. And even now, like if I go traveling and we're at a park and like, I see someone like, you know, I don't know, maybe suffering or something. I try to like get involved with them. I try to help them a little.
[00:03:53] Stretch: You're one of those guys yeah, exactly. Oh, no.
[00:03:57] Jules: An over helper. Yeah.
[00:03:59] Yeah, yeah.
[00:03:59] Stretch: No, it's always good, mate. It's always good. I love to hear that. So like, when you first started training, like, what was your initial approach? Were you doing body building? Were you doing gymnastics? Like what was it that brought you into the gym?
[00:04:13] Jules: Yeah, so I guess I was doing gymnastics as my main form of I guess strength and conditioning.
[00:04:19] And from there I really got into martial arts. And so from the martial arts, there were a lot of injuries that come up. And I guess I just started using cross-training to try to resolve those or even get better at the martial arts. And that kind of took on a life of its own in that, in the martial arts, let's say I was quite young, so we'll say 15 to 18.
[00:04:45] I was. Under the, I wanted to use the word spell, but that's rude. I was under the guide of whatever martial arts instructors I had at the time. And so I wasn't able to choose what I was doing for myself and I wasn't able to be creative. When I went into the gym, I was able to, you know, make up exercises, have experiences and do a bit more self fueled inquiry.
[00:05:08] And that that's really, I think, where it kicked off.
[00:05:11] Stretch: Yeah, wicked man. Yeah. It's a good insight to sort of have, I think a lot of coaches that have come up over the generations are very sort of fixed in their style of training. Like this is the way I train, so this is the way you will train. And we didn't do a lot of this sort of, you know, cross training as you call it, looking at other disciplines and thinking about, well, how could that maybe support martial arts?
[00:05:31] Like this is like early, early, early days mate. Like, I mean, we know Ido sort of did a lot of work to bring the whole movement culture, and this whole idea sort of to the forefront, but like, you sound, it sounds like you were ahead of yourself there ahead of the times, in terms of, you know, maybe martial arts and what was going on in that culture, when you started to introduce this stuff, like how was it perceived?
[00:05:51] Jules: Very, very mixed. The, the biggest issue I've had for me is a business. Is finding the right audience to digest what I'm presenting. You know, like it was always more, the older, more experienced, maybe beat up guy who was appreciating it, or maybe the person who had had some injuries and wasn't able to find any results in the traditional methods, you know?
[00:06:17] Oh, I've got back pain. I've been doing Pilates for five years. How's that working out for you? Not not to say that there aren't good Pilates practitioners, but more, just a representation of someone being stuck in a mainstream mold, looking for a solution. And it never eventuated into the results that it was advertised as.
[00:06:35] Stretch: It's great that you've got like such clarity or there was clarity around the niche or who you wanted to serve. Where did that come from? Did that come from your own experience? Did you have an injury where you had to rehabilitate yourself or was it more because of the crowd around you? The martial arts guys were getting injured and you were like, well, look, these guys need help.
[00:06:54] Jules: Yeah. So I had a a busy childhood in that my parents were both workaholics who actually went bankrupt. And during that time I felt two polarizing experiences. One, I wanted to do training to deal with my trauma or process it, or get the energy out or fill the time that my parents weren't around.
[00:07:17] Let's say. But at the same time I was getting hurt because I was doing these exercises maybe with some emotions on my back that I shouldn't have been carrying. And it provided me a lot of opportunity to get hurt. And then I was not comfortable asking my parents to take me for help because a, they didn't have the money and B they didn't have the time.
[00:07:41] And so I started to, you know, research some injury resolution. Whether that was better or worse at the time. That's debatable.
[00:07:49] Just to give an example, like I, I got gang green in my leg. Right. I went snowboarding one time. Couldn't afford it. Like my friend paid for the snowboarding trip, whatever.
[00:07:57] And I fall over and I cut my leg open and it gets stitched up. I don't go to the doctor, I'm riding my bike. I I smash my shin with the pedal, the stitches blow open. I'm like, oh fuck. I can't tell my parents about this. I'm not going back to the doctor. And it just turns to gang green. I get sent home from school for stinking.
[00:08:17] I go into the bathroom with a Stanley knife and I just cut the stuff out myself. Like, it's not a normal path, you know, it's stretchy. Can you see in the screen or not the scar
[00:08:29] Stretch: still? Yeah. I could see the scar there, mate. The idea. Yeah, it was
[00:08:33] Jules: just stupid, you know, but like that was the mindset at the time.
[00:08:36] And then, you know, you have more sensible injuries. Like maybe I was doing some judo. And I got thrown on my shoulder and my shoulder gets dislocated, but you know, you just go, all right, what can I start to do to deal with this? And then, you know, event after event, after event, you start to get better and better at it.
[00:08:53] And then you start to experiment a bit. You know, and find it and try different things.
[00:08:58] Stretch: Like where do you start with that?
[00:08:59] Cause I think obviously there's so many people out there that's say got a back injury or shoulder injury or whatever, and they've just got no idea. I go to a personal trainer, but is this trainer any good? Are they making you better? Are they making me worse? I go to a physio. They tell me to do a few of these, do a few of these, but you know, the injury, just keep coming back.
[00:09:16] Like what have you found in
[00:09:18] Jules: So I think number one, the most important thing, and this is the question I ask now, it's not a question I was able to ask then was, has the person you are working with gotten results before in the scenario you are dealing with. You know, like people go to like a back pain specialist or a shoulder pain specialist and they never actually ask how many people with this condition have you resolved successfully before?
[00:09:43] And how do you define successful resolution? Hmm. Yeah. Powerful question. So like, let. Yeah, it's a big one. And people don't even know that they're allowed to ask that, you know, they just go, oh, the doctor says I have to do this. And the, the, the question for the receiver of the treatment should be well on under what authority are you giving that advice?
[00:10:03] Yeah, for me, for me, let's say I would define complete resolution of an injury as a superseding function of the injured area, beyond what it was pre-injury injury. So let's say your I listened to your most recent interview. Was it Mike Lee? Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So let's say Mike, like blows his back on the clean, has he cleaned more than what he had previously cleaned?
[00:10:31] Pre-injury yep.
[00:10:33] Stretch: Yeah. Yeah. I like that. That's definitely a great way, mate. I did jump on Instagram and see one of your stories up there about, you know, one of your clients who'd broken, you know, his, his humorous was it.
[00:10:41] Jules: Oh, Dan. Yeah. Dan meraki. Yeah.
[00:10:44] Stretch: And like you're showing some of his rehab stuff and then like, there's a video of him obviously doing a one arm chin up, which is pretty incredible when you think about it.
[00:10:51] So, you know, obviously he's gained a lot more strength than, than previous injury and he's able to do that sort of stuff now, which is yeah. Insane lane. Yeah.
[00:10:59] Jules: So with that guy, sorry to go on. There's more things that we don't even. Like he had torn meniscus his knee. I can't remember if he had surgery right.
[00:11:10] Or not. I'm sure he does surgery. He also with the back injury guard issues with bleeding, I think. That's it and the humorous. So like, you know, that's just like a little advertisement to try to encourage people to get back into it, but there's so more that goes to the process.
[00:11:32] Stretch: So for you, has it mainly been yeah, no problem injury rehabilitation, clients that you've trained, or what would you say would be the, the biggest percentage of clients that you've worked with?
[00:11:43] Jules: It definitely seems like that's my specialty providing insights for people to help them navigate injuries specifically to get back to what they want to be doing or how they injured themselves in the first place.
[00:11:58] Stretch: But you also, what would you say would be your second biggest sort of clients?
[00:12:02] The the combat sports or what comes after that? Do you feel
[00:12:06] Jules: N no, I'd say my second business biggest would be coaches. So whether it's people who own CrossFit gyms, who own their own personal training business, who are looking to refine their practice specifically in the realm of helping people more, I'm not like a business coach.
[00:12:24] You've seen my advertising. It's not very impressive. But I do seem to have a skill set for connecting with someone's body in a way where we can find resolution and fairly quickly too.
[00:12:39] Stretch: I definitely wanna talk to you about the stuff with coaches. Cause like I said to you too, you know, two of my past guests in Amy and Ash, they're both coaches.
[00:12:45] And they've both worked with you in, in the past as hiring you as their coach. I think Ash is still, you know, working with you now as, as a coach. When did that sort of start for you? When did you start sort of stepping into the role of coaching coaches?
[00:13:00] Jules: Mm It's hard for me to say the exact time, but I think my, my drive to experiment maybe would attract coaches who are sick of doing the same thing and maybe wanting something a bit more interesting.
[00:13:15] And then maybe my drive to want to help people. I see someone suffering a little bit, you know, like it's a classic thing to be a coach, but be injured. And so you are, you know, too sick to look after yourself. Cuz you put all your energy into looking after other people. I am the guy that would come in and help you save yourself.
[00:13:34] Stretch: I wanna go into that in more detail. Cause I think it's a very important thing. I think there are a lot of coaches out there that are burnt out or who are suffering with their own health and training. And like you say, they're just giving so much energy to helping others that sometimes they forget to turn it around and take care of themselves.
[00:13:50] So can you talk to us a bit more about that? If, if a coach comes to you and you know, they're feeling burns out, maybe they've got a few niggles, where would you start with them?
[00:13:58] Jules: I usually start with the most easy to discuss medium, which would be the injury itself. You know, I think it's a bit much if you meet someone for the first time and you're like, Hey, fix your whole life, change all these things.
[00:14:12] It's not gonna be very successful. But if you, you know, let's say what's the most common injury back or shoulder.
[00:14:19] Stretch: I think shoulders are probably probably the highest
[00:14:20] Jules: yeah. So maybe someone comes right. And they They're coming for a shoulder injury. You do, you meet them at the shoulder injury and you have a discussion about it.
[00:14:29] You show them some things and you get the shoulder good. You know, maybe it takes three sessions and you've helped them quite substantially with the shoulder. Then it kind of becomes this well, we're both really enjoying this experience. What's next. And then it's okay to talk about the deeper layers of how the shoulder got hurt in the first place.
[00:14:48] You know? Maybe you're trying too hard in your training. You know, maybe you want to beat your best client, maybe who knows, whatever. Right? Maybe you are working too hard. You're not recovering. Maybe your nutrition's terrible. Maybe you're super stressed out about something that's going on in your life.
[00:15:04] And we start to like, you know, dig through that stuff. And ultimately the goal of that is to just clear the person or the coach that I'm working with. So they can be more clear to help more people. A lot of the business model, let's say that I'm perceiving from you is to focus on getting more clients online so you can help more people with less output from you as the coach.
[00:15:27] I think my business model is to upskill coaches so that they can help more people on my behalf.
[00:15:33] Stretch: That's a good role to sort of step into, like you've been in the coaching game for a long time, like you say, and there's a lot of great skill and knowledge that you have to share with coaches and you helping out a coach, obviously that starts to spread, you know, further, you have greater reach or greater impact because in a way you're sort of coaching their clients as,
[00:15:49] Jules: yeah.
[00:15:50] I really like what you said there about, you know, focusing on the injury. Cuz one of the things I sort of talked to about with a lot of my business coaching clients is. Pick one problem. And that's the best place to market. Like if the problem is I help clients who are injured, fix their injury and, you know, move pain free, what that problem is the injury.
[00:16:10] Stretch: And even though you've got a great skill set, like nutrition and, you know, so support and the training and talking about stress and lifestyle factors that comes later in the actual working with the client, but the sales thing or the marketing thing up. Like I said is just to talk about the client about their pain point.
[00:16:25] Like, what's the number one thing right now stopping you. And obviously injury's a big thing for a lot of people. When did you, like, when did you just start to focus in on that? Like, were you trying to sell yourself as, you know, a weightlifting coach CrossFit, you know, coach helping these coaches improve, you know, maybe the way that they're teaching their classes or what they're teaching or.
[00:16:45] The injury thing, like, did you, is there a point in time where you just went? No, that's what I'm gonna really hone in on.
[00:16:50] Jules: So let's say I'd done a fair bit of my own training and research, let's say around the age of 17 to 20 give or take maybe 22. I decided that I'd know I knew enough and I was ready to get a job.
[00:17:08] And so I think I went and did a personal training certifi. Maybe like a set three or four or something. And I walked into Schwartz's CrossFit, Melbourne. I can't remember if it was announced or not. I just walked in and I was like, Benji, gimme a job. And he was like, no, I'm like,
[00:17:26] and then I was like, alright, if you won't give me a job, what's your, what injury have you got right now? And he's like, oh my shoulder's pretty sore. And I'm like, all right, let me touch your shoulder. So I went into his office, I gave him a massage. And then I did such a good job with that massage in that time that he started referring people to me for shoulder injuries.
[00:17:47] And so. Obviously CrossFit, obviously you're a a new exercise or you come into that environment. The goal is intensity. So obviously you're gonna damage some things. And so a lot of people were coming through with injured shoulders as a referral from Benji. And I was just basically sticky taping them back together and sending them back.
[00:18:08] You know, to do the same thing. And that was the business model for quite a while. I think maybe three years, I was just like full time, you know, massage therapist, just sticking cross fitters back together in conjunction with that, I'd met Beyorn and Mike Ashcroft who were at Schwarts at the time and Beyorn was actually managing CrossFits St Kilda.
[00:18:30] And he got me into CrossFits St Kilda for an interview to run a mobility class under the woman who owned it at the time, Rose Campbell. Funny story. It was actually pretty much the first date for my wife and I was a job interview cuz she'd known rose as well. And our job interview was Fran. Oh, no.
[00:18:51] Yeah. So like those that don't know, it's a cardio workout where you do 21 reps, 15 reps, nine reps of thrusters, which is like a front squat and a press. And some keeping pull up, which is basically like a cardio pull up. And it like created this pressure. Like, oh, if I get a good time, I'll get a job here.
[00:19:11] Even though it had no correlate.
[00:19:13] Stretch: Yeah. It's a nasty workout. Isn't it, mate. It leaves you leaves you lying on the floor. Gasping for air coughing up your spleen.
[00:19:18] Jules: Yeah, a hundred percent.
[00:19:20] So then from there I ended up teaching a mobility class. It started like once a week, twice a week. And then we ended up making it like a bit of a thing where it was maybe 30 minutes or 45 minutes, every weekday for the gym. And it, we provided like a pretty good service for CrossFitters to come in and try to get some recovery.
[00:19:40] And it was, it was, I think the first time. In Melbourne, anything like that was really running. I'm trying to think of the era that might have been 11 years ago. Yeah, maybe 12. Yeah.
[00:19:53] Stretch: That's wick. That's wicked, man. It's really good to hear that. Like you you're bringing that sort of stuff in, and there's definitely a huge gap in the market there.
[00:19:59] I think with you know, CrossFitters beating themselves up and not dedicating enough time to their restoration of their bodies. How I'm curious though, with that, cuz I, I know a few coaches that have tried to set up mobility classes, some have been really successful in CrossFit gyms and others. I've really struggled to attract the members or bring the members across.
[00:20:19] A lot of people have the idea of I've gotta go to the gym. I've gotta beat myself up. I've gotta be, you know, sore and stiff afterwards for, you know, the results to happen. How did you present the idea of mobility classes to this gym? And how did you find the uptake?
[00:20:32] Jules: So number one, I was very lucky at the time to work for this lady Rose Campbell, because she was a very good people person.
[00:20:41] And I want to use the word marketer, not in the sense now of advertising online, but of getting in with every. Member, you know, like she was constantly talking to her members and encouraging them to do the things they need to do. You know, let's say there was a weak girl at the gym. She would say, you need to come to the weightlifting class and get stronger.
[00:20:59] Let's say there was a stiff, injured guy. She would be like, don't go, oh, she wouldn't say don't go to the physio. But she would say like, you should try coming to this class and see if it helps resolve what's going on for you. Because at the end of the day, The biggest value for a gym owner or coach is to have uninjured members who can stay members.
[00:21:19] Cuz I think that's the number one rate of attrition. People get hurt and they drop out. Mm.
[00:21:24] Stretch: Yeah. Very, very, very true. I think very smart point to focus on like, say I think there's enough fear around some of those high intensity classes for a lot of general population already and then one injury. And it's like, well, I've never gone back to that.
[00:21:36] So the uptake was pretty good. Like when you start, when that, when she was sharing that message and she was directing people, like how popular were your mobility classes?
[00:21:43] Jules: 20 to 30 people, every class, five days a week. Wow. Wow, man. It was insane. It was a, yeah.
[00:21:50] Yeah. If I was like a business guy that would've been like gold mine time, I should have been making brands. I should have made t-shirts compression, everything. I'd be, that'd be a millionaire.
[00:22:01] Stretch: The next kelly star rat mate.
[00:22:02] Jules: Yeah. He was huge for me. Kelly was really the first like person to come out and put the message out and say, Hey, it's okay to be your own therapist.
[00:22:11] Stretch: I think he did wonders for the whole mobility movement and there's been a lot of great stuff that's sort of come from that. He's really sort of, you know, been the founder. I think of putting that out there and you know, now you've got guys like Lucas, Aaron range of strength. Guys like Emmett Lewis guys, like kick Locklin.
[00:22:25] There's a holy of people out there that have really start to push, you know, a lot more of the mobility stuff. And I think we're starting to see more of it creeping. To health and wellness. And, and especially even at the high level, like a lot of the CrossFit athletes these days are spending a lot more time on their on their flexibility and mobility, which is, which is great to see.
[00:22:43] You know, before you talked a little bit about, about referrals, what can you tell us about referrals for you? Cause I, you know, I hear that, you know, a lot of your clients come from referrals and what do you put that down to?
[00:22:54] Jules: I just try to do a good job. Pretty much, it try to be like honest with them about what's going on and my understanding of it and try to get results for them.
[00:23:05] You know, like small measurable ones, you know? So you can actually have a, a talking point, like, let's say someone comes for a problem and if you resolve not resolve the problem, let's say you get it headed in the right direction. Within three sessions. That's very good for most people in this day in age or environment.
[00:23:28] And if you're doing that, then they want to tell other people about it because. At the end of the day, I don't want an address book full of people that I'm servicing weekly for the same problem. If anything, that actually burns me out and I get disinterested in my clientele, I'm really in it for progress and results.
[00:23:46] And so if we are doing amazing miraculous things all the time, that gets me excited. And then that person can move on. Let's say, or change goals. Pivot, I believe is the term. And I'm able to go in with other people on new things and you know, it keeps it exciting. Yeah. Yep.
[00:24:04] Stretch: I wanna come back to that pivot point.
[00:24:06] Cause I think that's an interesting point to talk on, but before we, before we do you talked about like seeing results, like I think lots of people go to the gym. We see results is I've put more weight on the bar or I've got stronger cuz I can do more reps or something when it comes to something like mobility and pain, what are you using as a measure?
[00:24:23] Jules: Yep. Quality of life. A hundred percent. So the main problem let's say with shoulder pain is people just want to be able to take their jumper off and it to feel good, you know, and it, it doesn't matter what they're bench pressing, what they're push pressing. If they can take their jumper on and off, and it doesn't hurt them, then they're happy.
[00:24:41] And they've they've made some progress on where they usually came in. Yeah, from there, obviously you can start to chase results. Like a coach, I train in Melbourne, David vog when he came in, he couldn't press a 20 kilo barbell. His shoulder was f'ed. He can do a single arm ring routine right now with like one arm pullups reverse and full meat hooks, single arm skin, the cats, like I've never seen anyone do stuff like this.
[00:25:07] And or maybe one person let's say like Johnny SAP or even my teacher, Juan, but where he came from the weakness of the shoulder, we took it to the point where he has the stronger shoulders out of anyone. I know. It's very exciting.
[00:25:21] Stretch: I have, I have met Dave. I, I think I met him once down at charge when you were down there and I was doing a session and he was, he was busting out maybe. Plans on the rings or something. And I was like, man, this dude's are, this dude's fucking strong
[00:25:32] Jules: but so that guy, he was an office worker at Vic roads.
[00:25:36] And when we started, he just came to get some help with his shoulder. I think he was either training at cross CrossFit U west under Alex Chung, or he was trying to become a coach. I can't remember, but he's quit his job at Vic Roads. and he's now one of the strongest, I would say body weight, people in Melbourne, and he's a very successful personal trainer working out of charge.
[00:25:58] Stretch: How does that make you feel when you sort of think about the journey that he's been through and how that's probably changed his whole life?
[00:26:05] Jules: So proud, like unbelievably proud, just not so much that I care that he's a personal trainer or that he's super strong, but that he's happy.
[00:26:15] You know, cuz that's, that's all that should really be a vehicle for so much. You see, I, I just like take a right term, but whatever so much, you see people like take their training goals. And I think this is particularly evident in Olympic weight lifting or even power lifting. They get so obsessed with the kilograms or the PRS or the gains.
[00:26:34] They actually lose track that they should be doing it to make their life better. And they're just suffering all the time, you know, so upset that they're not stronger or that they're not already hitting these goals or that they're grinding in an injury, but like let's say for. David, even though his strength is so crazy and so specialized, he's still like enjoying his life to the max.
[00:26:56] It isn't getting in his way at all. He's renovating his own home. He just had his own baby. Like all the things in his life are richer and better for this platform of strength that he's built for himself. Even just his confidence to like go out and deal with difficult situations. Now. Is, he was the shyest guy.
[00:27:15] He wouldn't talk at all. And now the things he tells me, he deals with emotionally. I'm just like, fucking hell dude, you're a warrior.
[00:27:21] Stretch: it's great to see mate. It's like, we, we sometimes focus in on that physical transformation and you know, what's happening in terms of body composition or weights or this, that the other.
[00:27:31] But I think the emotional transformation, like you've described there, the confidence that he's gained, that's come from training and how it's changed his whole life is something that we often overlook. But it's great to sort of see, you know, that you recognize that in, in so many of your clients.
[00:27:45] If we get back to that pivot point, you talked about, so you've got clients, they've got an injury, you're helping them with the injury. They get to a point where they can put their jumper on, or they start to feel better. Like, what's the pivot there. You talked about changing goals. Mm-hmm so, you know, you're putting yourself out there as a, as a, as a rehabilitation coach or helping people with injury.
[00:28:03] What happens in your world? Once they get to a point where maybe they're pain free.
[00:28:08] Jules: Not everyone's the same for starters. So like some people will just come for some resolution surrounding an injury or what's going on, and that could be a one to three session thing, and then they're gone and that's, you know, the average person let's say I don't do very many of those.
[00:28:24] Most people come on looking for some sort of long term education, not in the beginning, they don't know that's the case in the beginning, it's just the injury, but then it becomes very apparent that there's more things to work on. You know, each session they open with, Hey, can we work on this extra thing we didn't talk about, Hey, can we start adding in this thing?
[00:28:42] Oh, I really like this. And it becomes this like organic growth where we're almost building this relationship or this framework for interaction. Based on similar tastes in physical activity. And then from there, obviously the problems start to arise if they have habits that aren't serving them, whether it be in life or in training.
[00:29:04] And we start to have a medium that we can talk about it. You know, like, Hey, maybe your strength training would go a bit better if you were getting more sleep or, Hey, what, what are you eating at the moment? I think it's causing some havoc for you. Let's try switching this up and you are little bit by little bit.
[00:29:23] You start to like clean up the edges on all the little things.
[00:29:27] Stretch: So good mate. So good. I, I like your, I like your approach and you know, it's, it's building trust with the client. Like, you know, they're coming to you for the injury and because you're helping them solve the injury, you're building the relationship and the trust, and then they start to rely on you for more information.
[00:29:43] What are, what are your boundaries or what does it sort of look like when you work with a client? Are you helping them with nutrition, sleep, mental health? Like what are, what are the other aspects besides the physical training that. Work with, with your clients?
[00:29:55] Jules: I think it's very, very client dependent based on the length of the relationship, the experiences that you've had together and what both parties are willing to work on in the past, I've gotten into some terrible relationships with clients where it's like their disease is my mission to cure.
[00:30:15] And like, I can, I don't even know if I should tell these stories, but whatever. So I was working with someone who was suffering very, very badly from a diagnosis of Ms. So this, this person, right? They. Right now they can't walk comfortably. They couldn't run.
[00:30:36] They definitely couldn't do a full range of motion squat. And we got them to the point where they could run up a halfpipe and climb out of the top. Now the crux of what what was actually causing the Ms. Diagnosis was an eating disorder. And I identified some key areas where they could basically reverse their diagnosis or their symptoms by changing the way they ate.
[00:31:06] And they did not want to do that. You know, it was more important to them to maintain the way they were eating in. In order to maintain their image of themselves, their belief system, whatever. Right. And so we came to this budding heads where it was like, well, this is how you are gonna fix up the thing that you paid me to help you fix up.
[00:31:27] And they were like, I'm not doing that. You are being unfair, blah, blah, blah, relationship destroyed. And so now, like sometimes I see this person suffering very, very badly. Mm. I, I know that there's a path for them to we'll call it salvation. It may not necessarily be the dietary recommendation I made. You know, there could be another way, but I know that that door exists for them.
[00:31:51] And that was kind of the crumbling of our relationship.
[00:31:55] Stretch: Yeah. Have had similar experiences with clients in the past. And I think you touched on it before, you know, you were sort of saying that the clients that stay with you, they've got an interest in the style of training that you're presenting them with.
[00:32:06] So there's similar values that underlie. You know what you're teaching and the belief systems are similar. So as a coach client relationship, that works really well and you grow together. But if you do get those clients that have got maybe different values or a different belief system, well then that's when you know that clash can sort of come.
[00:32:23] And it's not to say that you're a bad coach or necessarily they're a bad client, but the relationship there is not gonna work because the belief systems, unless someone's willing to change those belief systems are always gonna sort of get in the way. But. It's nuts to hear you talk about it on that level.
[00:32:38] Cause I don't think many personal trainers would have maybe the knowledge and experience that you've got around. Some of these topics, like to work with a client that's got Ms. Like, What made you take on that client believing that you could help them? Is there research, is there something you've done in the past or what is it that allows you to sort of step into that role?
[00:32:59] Jules: Yeah. So obviously over the time that I've been doing the job, I've formed some great relationships. So we'll just use Ash as an example, but there have been like chiropractors, osteopaths, whatever who Who have seen me produce, I'm gonna say miraculous results. And therefore also want that for their clients.
[00:33:19] If that person's open to it. At the moment, let's say Ash would be a great person. You know, he sees someone who's suffering. He sees that they want to get better and that they're open to the idea. And so he would refer that person to me and we could. Have that I'm gonna use the word medium because it's really just like, whatever your reality is at the time to talk about, you know, Like, if you're a priest, you're gonna talk about spirituality to fix someone's broken shoulder.
[00:33:48] If you're a power lifter, you're gonna talk about bench press. So whatever the medium is that you guys can meet in is is definitely like the, the gateway to the relationship. And then the ideas that come up. I just try to make it as simple as possible. I operate from the belief system that nature or the universe has provided you with the answer.
[00:34:09] Like you don't, there's no reason for you to be sick and there's an option for you to not be sick. So then from that belief point, that there's a solution. I try to find the most clear and basic, and also aligned with the rules of nature. In order to help someone. So let's say in the Ms scenario, I identified that there was a relationship between animal fat consumption and brain or neural tissue function.
[00:34:37] You know, it's not hard to make a bone broth. It doesn't cost a lot of money. There's no crazy experiments going on. And at the end of the day, if it doesn't work, there's no risk. You know, no one died from trying bone broth, but then, you know, there, there are other treatment protocols that are promoted within the hospital system that are dangerous, that people are just willing to try, like so early, like, oh my knee hurts.
[00:35:00] I'm gonna let someone just cut into my. Willy nilly like, you know, or I'm gonna take this crazy medication that's been out for X amount of time. Did you read the side effect list? No, no, no idea. My doctor just said it was cool.
[00:35:14] Stretch: So much trust isn't it in the medical system and so much trust in going under the knife and operations, you know, I think you said at the start, that, that very powerful question.
[00:35:21] Unlike the results. How, how many people have you held before? What is, what is the outcome here? Also, I think it's about knowing the options. Like I think so, so many people trust their doctor because they don't have another option or they don't start to look into, well, what's the rehabilitation or what, what would, what would be the natural solution?
[00:35:38] I think it's changing like slowly, cuz there's more and more, you know, coach like your self out there and more and more people are starting to connect, but let's say maybe by via social media or the information is becoming more readily available. I wanna switch now, maybe, and talk a little bit about, you know, the running of your business and the day to day sort of tasks.
[00:35:55] Like, you know, you sound like you're a pretty busy guy. Like how many clients are you working with and maybe how do you manage manage your time?
[00:36:01] Jules: I'm terrible. Yeah. Yeah. I am as close to burnout as possible. I use every trick possible to stay afloat. I go as hard as I can to get what I want and then I fucking lie down and lick my wounds until I'm ready to go. Again.
[00:36:16] Stretch: Sounds like you need a coach mate.
[00:36:18] Jules: yeah, seriously. Do you know what it is? I've been doing a lot of work on. and I've been identifying that. I dress Ambition up as greed, you know, I want to help more people. Oh, that's ambitious. Or I want to open this health retreat. I wanna get it done this year.
[00:36:35] That's ambitious, but really I'm just being greedy. I'm trying to squeeze more juice out the lemon than I can for my own, you know, pleasure. You know, we live in like almost the height of technology in a way where you can have anything you want whenever you want. Yeah. Like, oh, you can't afford that new motorbike.
[00:36:53] No problem. We'll put it on finance, whatever, you know. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. You can have anything you want right now. And like that's it's dangerous.
[00:37:02] It makes you very, very greedy and yeah, I suffer from that. I want to help more people. So I cram in more clients. I want to learn to do more things myself. Like I've never operated farm machinery. Right. Just this year since getting the farm, I can now use chainsaws power tools. I've built things. I got a tractor I'm getting tractor implements, you know, like it's just crazy.
[00:37:27] Like, what am I doing? And then the whole time I'm trying to run this business, like the personal training business that I was doing as a standalone business before. And I was like, oh yeah, I'll just tack on this new thing, whatever .
[00:37:38] Stretch: Too many goals, too many goals, mate.
[00:37:41] Jules: exactly too much greed. So it is a, it's a balancing act of Trying to spend the right amount of energy in the right places to get the maximum results.
[00:37:53] And also identifying, like, I don't necessarily view it as a bad thing. If I burnt out, you know, coming from that competition background. I like the framework of having a preparation period, having a competition period, having a recovery period, you know, maybe like Olympic cycle's a bit long, four years for me.
[00:38:13] I'm I maybe more like a eight week fight camp kind of guy, you know?
[00:38:18] Stretch: Get in, get it done and then recover mate
[00:38:21] Jules: and then, and then recover. Exactly like today. I'm so lucky. I just had two days pretty much in bed recovering because I'm getting ready to move the clinic and push with the farm. So I just tried to really relax.
[00:38:33] So that next week, my life force is at maximum level. So I can go and do this job as well as possible. And you know, that means like doing it manually, efficiently, or time efficient or even energy efficient, you know, when you try to take on a project and you're already too burnt out, you just crash the ship straight away, and people might experience that as injuries or failure, but.
[00:38:55] It doesn't mean that task is impossible. You just weren't prepared and prepared doesn't necessarily mean doing the right amount of drills or exercises. It's also the right amount of recovery.
[00:39:05] Stretch: Are you a planner, you just sort of do a little sit down and plan out, you know, what's coming in the weeks ahead or how do you set up, you know, your schedule there?
[00:39:12] Jules: So I'm a big Manifesta, whatever that is, dreamer, whatever. And like, I'll, I'll dream this impossible thing, you know, let's say I want to feed a hundred people. I've never commercially farmed in my life. Like I have no idea what that goal looks like, but I know how to plant one carrot. Yeah. So I know what these two ends are.
[00:39:34] And from the one carrot, I can take one step. And from the a hundred people, I can take one step and eventually, you know, it just kind of works its way out. And I also operate from the belief that if I'm doing what I perceive with my best intentions is the right thing. I'm gonna get help. So if I just try my hardest and do my best people are gonna get on board.
[00:39:58] You know, whatever the universe is gonna get on board and we're gonna be able to get it done. .
[00:40:02] Stretch: I like that analogy. The carrot, the carrot analogy. It's a good one. yeah. So let's talk about maybe your habits and routines. What sort of things support do you have a morning routine?
[00:40:14] Are you very strict on a morning routine or there are other certain habits that are in your day that you make sure that you always nail.
[00:40:20] Jules: Yep. So I just finished a period of maximum output as in like a workload output. So I just got the farm, so that was a lot of work arranging the finances, paying for it, blah, blah, blah.
[00:40:35] Then I had this clinic in Elwood, which was costing quite a bit of money. And then I also had to no, I won't go into. But I had other things that I had to pay for to try to make things run. So my, my whole goal for the last 12 months was maximum cash flow. And I burnt out. I did too much. Yeah. I knew what I was doing, but I had to do it at the time.
[00:40:57] So now I'm moving into a period of self growth so that I am a bigger person and I'm able to grow the projects that I wanna work on to a bigger level. You know, if I'm, if I'm the battery or the power source for the projects, I'm moving into a period now of upgrading the battery and I'll reclaiming my mornings.
[00:41:20] So I'm not gonna work in the mornings anymore. Previously. I was doing that to try to fit in as much as I could. I'll be doing some sort of Practice. They'll definitely be journaling involved and then I'll save the hands on the tools working for the afternoon period.
[00:41:35] Stretch: Have you always been into journaling and meditation or is that something new that you've just taken on or?
[00:41:39] Jules: It's definitely, always not always. That's the wrong term. So keeping a training diary or even some sort of journal, as you would know, is a big part of the Ido Portal method. In my experience. And so just having that, that book or that, that person or mirror that is you to bounce off ideas and even use it as like a spell casting tool to project, what you want to do.
[00:42:04] You know, I will do a one arm pull up, meanwhile, can't do an Archer pull up, but you know, it starts to get you there, you know, little bit by little bit. And so. Even if your first step let's say in the carrot analogy is just to write down what you want to do. That is huge in itself. One of your sign off questions was what was the study or classes or things you should look into?
[00:42:28] Stretch: Yeah, it was all about like, what resources do you have you found helpful in developing your, your, your career?
[00:42:33] Jules: My answer for that was the journal, because you can, you can have a discussion with. About what you're doing, where you're going and even taking like data, like, is it working? You know, that, that I think is one of the best tools, the self collection tool.
[00:42:50] And once you're clear on your self reflection, you can use that to then go and speak to a coach. Like you would have clients who have clear notes about, they want to do questions to ask you those guys are kicking and ass. I'm sure. And then you got the person who's like, I don't know what's going on. I don't know anything.
[00:43:06] I don't even know what to ask you. And it's very hard to put your finger on a point to then move to the next point with that person.
[00:43:12] Stretch: I think writing itself, you know, just like being able to sit down and ask those powerful questions and you know, whether that's in your training and setting training goals and reflecting on your progress in training, recovery, all these little things, or whether that's in business, you know, what are your goals?
[00:43:26] Who do you wanna become as a coach? What's the vision? What are you working towards? All these things, a tough questions to ask, but I think when you do sit down and find that clarity around those topics, it makes a, it definitely makes a big difference. Just an eye on the clock, mate. We'll just, we'll get to those questions pretty soon, but just before we do it, do finish up.
[00:43:44] Let's I just want curious to hear a little bit more about the farm and the ambition there. What is future plans for Jules?
[00:43:50] Jules: Hmm. So we got this property, it was 75 acres. It was used as an Airbnb for some someone's superannuation. Like they would just, you know, as a money tool to top it up or whatever.
[00:44:04] So it was pretty run down in regards to its farming capabilities PIP. And I bought it and we just started cleaning it up. You know, we've been clearing land, preparing areas. We've been working out how the seasons work, what things grow here, what opportunities are available for us. And the, the goal is to create a true health experience for someone.
[00:44:29] Whatever, whatever that means, where we have like a old school sauna, where we have a space where people can decompress, like I purposefully bought a property with terrible internet reception to, you know, encourage people out of technology. I can't make a phone call from here. Like if I wanna call someone, I have to do it through wifi.
[00:44:50] Stretch: for remote mate. I like it.
[00:44:53] Jules: Yeah. Where we'll be building up what we can grow in terms of supplying food for people in Melbourne. And we'll also be getting into like older medicine practices where, you know, the, the crossover between chemical and spiritual experiences are happening
[00:45:10] Stretch: too. Awesome. Mate sounds very, very interesting.
[00:45:13] Will there be a physical aspect to it? Are you gonna be doing some training and stuff down around there?
[00:45:17] Jules: 1000%. The the only reason that I don't keep bringing that up is because that is what I do for my, let's say bread and butter in Melbourne. So it's implied that that door will be there and that'll be the door that people come here through.
[00:45:32] You know, most of the clients that we would be inviting would know us through the physical work. And so. They would maybe come here and experience more of the, the food or the health practices that they don't get to experience in a normal one hour personal training session.
[00:45:51] Stretch: Yeah. Incredible. What's what's the goal there.
[00:45:53] Like what's, what's the impact you really want to have on the people that are gonna come to the farm and have that experience.
[00:45:59] Jules: As much as I can, I want to provide the, the healthiest clearest service I can for people who are interested in taking control of their own health and maybe want to invest in that in an immersive way.
[00:46:15] Whether that's learning to grow food or learning to prepare food from, I'm not gonna say an VEIC perspective, but more of an ancient perspective, or if they wanna learn, you know, how, how to train in a, in a holistic way. And I don't just mean like balancing push pull, but I mean, you know, balancing the whole person, like what, what does, what does You know, I don't wanna be rude.
[00:46:40] I, I have a habit of that. Go for it, mate. You're allowed, you know, like a really flexible Asian Yogi, right. Or even a N Avin NA is a great example. Yeah. Obviously, no one knows who that is, but you and I do. Yeah. Avinash needs to do power lifting, right. To glue himself together to survive. Yep. Yeah, but you and I, we don't need to do power lifting.
[00:47:04] We're already stuck together. We should not be doing that. yeah. Unless very, yeah, for a very specific task, you know, like the other day I was I, I got some free trailers for the tractor. Yep. And so like, I'm like, yeah, I'm strong. So I'm like picking these things up, dragging them around, but what do you reckon a attract a trailer weighs 800 kilos.
[00:47:25] Yeah. About that. Yep. yeah. So, so it was like 95% of how strong I could be, you know, like I could lift it five times and then I was done. And so from that, I came back to Melbourne in the gym and I was like, oh, I gotta put my one RM dead lift up, because if I'm gonna be doing this farm work, I need to be a little bit stronger.
[00:47:44] And I think I pulled. I pulled 10 singles working up to a max and that was it. And maybe in a previous life, you would experience this. You would like work up to you'd do a warmup barbell exercise, then you'd pull to a max and then you'd do drop sets. And the next thing, you know, your whole training, session's just being deadlift.
[00:48:05] Yeah. And then, oh, my back hurts. Oh, my legs are stiff. And you're like, what the fuck am I doing with my life? I'm an idiot.
[00:48:11] Stretch: we gotta sometimes learn the hard way mate. And sometimes pain could be the best teacher. Can't it?
[00:48:16] Jules: And the good thing is if you don't learn it first, go around. You get to learn it again.
[00:48:19] The second trip.
[00:48:20] Stretch: Back on the farm and the experience they're gonna have, what's that gonna look like? Is that gonna be like a week retreat or is it just gonna be small workshops or what's the plan? Do you think their Jules.
[00:48:28] Jules: Yeah. So the farm that I bought has multiple buildings.
[00:48:32] So at the moment I could host seven people indoors. So I think that I'm aiming for that. I am, I'm working out if I want to teach the whole thing myself or I, if I want to invite in teachers who I have a, a deep relationship to, to run some of the sessions. And at the moment I'm leaning towards that.
[00:48:52] Because I have a bad habit of trying to do things myself, and I think it would be better to get, you know, more people in more batteries in or more energy in to have a bigger experience. And also not just my experience, but other people's who I, I trust have true health intentions will call it. So maybe the first one will be.
[00:49:14] Three to five days, depending on what people can do about seven participants, it'll be 60%, what they've experienced and expected before, and maybe 40% of things. They had no idea or even an option.
[00:49:29] Stretch: Sounds great. I look forward to, I look forward to seeing that unfold, man. I hope hopefully you'll get some some content up and around that sort of stuff.
[00:49:36] Jules: The only way that'll happen. Stretch is if you come
[00:49:39] Stretch: I'll I'll come just for the content creation.
[00:49:41] There's so much we can talk about, I'd love to talk about mentors. I'd love to talk about, you know, the partnerships and stuff that you've obviously created with different specialists to help you.
[00:49:49] And it sounds like, you know, you're still doing that now with the growth of this new business that you're working on. I mean the new business itself, I think, you know, we'll have to do a part to at some point and. And really talk about how that's going. But just to finish up, yeah. There's those sort of three questions I was gonna ask you.
[00:50:02] The first one was about the resources, courses and books. And I think, you know, you've already summed that up in, in sense of like journaling is such a great tool to be using mm-hmm . My second question is like, what advice would you give a younger version of yourself?
[00:50:14] Jules: Mm,
[00:50:16] I thought about this and it was quite hard for me to answer because obviously I made a lot of mistakes, but I'm happy I made the mistakes because there've been, I guess a refinement of what I am now.
[00:50:27] So I wouldn't wanna really change anything. Like obviously some things were difficult or some things were easy and pleasurable. But at the same time, they all arrived me to this point. What I, I guess that the most succinct thing that I could say to myself is just like take it easy. Like you don't have to do it all now.
[00:50:46] Like, you know, There, there is time.
[00:50:49] Stretch: Sounds like some advice you should take now, too, mate. Maybe not that much younger. 10 minutes ago. Yeah.
[00:50:54] Jules: That's my guilt and the guilt. That's the word? That's my that's my curse or karma. Yeah, but I just feel like I just, I want to be more useful, do more, whatever.
[00:51:05] Stretch: I think it's a common thing, mate.
[00:51:06] I think we all feel like, especially as coaches or when we're in a, in a, in a people sort of service business, we always just want to keep helping and keep pushing. And that can come at a cost to our own mental health and physical health and wellbeing as well. So it's being aware of that, I suppose. And appreciating those times.
[00:51:21] It's, it's awesome to hear that you sort of schedule in, you know, recovery times. It definitely take some down time to catch up after you've done that, that hard work . Mm. My final question is if you could have dinner with anyone, be them dead or alive, who would that be? And why?
[00:51:36] Jules: Yeah. Well, obviously not, obviously I'm sure some people were just like, I want to have dinner with Pamela Anderson is that obviously, is it, oh, well I D some people would think that way.
[00:51:46] Yeah. But like, yeah, for me, I just want to go like ancient, like or what's perceived to be as ancient, complete knowledge or, or, you know, whole knowledge like, you know, who nickel or Tesla is?
[00:51:58] Stretch: . I can't say I do.
[00:51:58] Jules: Okay. He's like the inspiration for Albert Einstein, let's say. Okay. Yeah, he's cool.
[00:52:06] I'd want to have dinner with him. I'd do dinner with Jesus a hundred percent. I would, you know, like, oh, why not? Let's have dinner with RA the Sunguard. Yeah. Like just pick one. It doesn't matter.
[00:52:18] Stretch: yeah. What, what's the sort of questions would you ask about? Or what's the why behind that? What's the main information you'd want to be able to gather that conversation
[00:52:27] Jules: who know how could I quantify what they would be able to teach me at this point in my bity life.
[00:52:32] What what's the most like I'll use the word material or now answer that someone's given, like, has anyone just been like, oh, I want to have dinner with the prince William.
[00:52:41] Stretch: Yeah, different people come up with different answers. It's sort of interesting. Some would be some are along the lines of like, you know, coaching or gaining knowledge around, you know, different sort of health areas or expertise. And some might be even, you know, just catching up with their mentors and stuff, but then others will be, it's like a, it's like an opposite interest.
[00:52:57] Like, you know, I think Mike last week sort of spoke about, you know, Michael Schumacher. As a young age, he was into car racing and just loved, loved that sort of stuff. So one of his, I suppose, idols or people he'd like to sit down and talk with, so yeah, it's, there's different answers that come from different coaches and it's just interesting to sort of see who they put forward, mate.
[00:53:14] Mate, just before we finish up, is there anything else you wanna add or you wanna say to you know, to personal trainers and coaches maybe looking to build their careers?
[00:53:22] Jules: I don't know for me, the biggest thing is just trying to like really honestly help people if that's your goal and you, you try to do a good job, whether you do the good job or not is irrelevant. As long as you have the best intentions, you will keep getting better and you will keep helping people.
[00:53:40] You will make it definitely, it's a very hard job, especially in the beginning to get going, you know, you know what? It's like, you become a personal trainer. You're like desperate to train people. But if you just, if you take your time and you, you make the most of the opportunities that come to you, you will build up and you will get.
[00:54:00] Because at the end of the day, everyone has a body and everyone needs to perform maintenance on their body. And people need skilled people to help them perform maintenance, especially if they're not doing that with the majority of their time, you know, office workers or construction people, whatever.
[00:54:17] And so there's a big, big, big space in the market or space in the universe for positive people to come and. I'll leave it at that.
[00:54:26] Stretch: I love that message. It's very sound. And I think, you know, as new coaches, we struggle with imposter syndrome and all these things that go through our mind and to see the experienced coaches or hear from yourself that, you know, you went through some of that and you just kept pushing and it's obviously worked out for you.
[00:54:39] And it's great to see, I suppose, the diversity in your career and where you're taking it right now, mate, it's inspiring to see, you know, you moving to the farm and, you know, investing in this sort of healthy lifestyle sort of thing for yourself, but then also being willing to share. With, you know, the clients that you care about and the people that you want to help.
[00:54:54] So best of luck with that, mate, it's been awesome to chat to you really appreciate your time.
[00:54:58] Jules: Thanks, stretch.
[00:54:59]